Ang Pagkamalikhain ay Kaligtasan ng Buhay - Fading Echo Pakikipanayam kay Samantha Béart at Emmanuel Obert

Transkripsyon ng Audio

"Should we talk Fading Echo? Should we talk a bit about...
If we have to! If we must! It's the hats, the t-shirts..."

"Thank you so much for joining me guys about Fading Echo.
Obviously something that has been a talking point about this game is the level of trust that you have had, Sam, with everything basically involved which is quite rare in the industry, as everyone who works in it knows there's a lot of secrecy, there's a lot of NDAs, there's a lot of things that need to be signed before you can even shake hands half the time."

"So I wanted to ask about, from both your guys' perspective how does that level of trust come about in a way and as well, how has it helped your experience in working on the game?
It's your idea, so..."

"I don't really think we put a lot of thought into it, just like it's natural.
I think fundamentally, when we talk about video games or tech or stuff like that you always think about engines and codes or whatever but fundamentally it's a human experience and I think it's meeting the right people and people you want to work with and you're going to spend a lot of time working with for numerous years so I think the best thing you can do is to try to find those right people and make sure you're open and I think the idea for us was always for Fading Echo to become a collegial kind of work experience and making sure that everybody was able to participate to the craft, to building the universe, the characters, the gameplay, whatever and making sure that we all bring that value together and I think it's fundamentally where it just naturally comes from."

"Plus Sam is really cool to work with.
He has to say that because I'm an idiot.
But thank you.
I mean, sure, it allows me to do my best work."

"I know what the genre is, I know what the background is of the developers that helps me find my place in everything and that level of trust makes me feel invested in the whole project.
There's no real disadvantage, I don't think, for you."

"I mean, what have I said?
I've said I'm in it and I've said some of the actors in Critical Role are in it and that's essentially what I've said.
So I don't really know why there needs to be so much ending."

"And then I'm enthusiastic because they gave me a scene key on day one.
So I got to play a build of it very early on and again, naturally enthusiastic about the whole thing and really wanting it to succeed and being part of it and then you have a natural evangelist for your game."

"And I think there's some, particularly as you play, I understand what the fear is sometimes but we don't do this so much in other media and it does make me wonder why."

"You've drank the Kool-Aid, essentially.
In other words, you've been able to fully throw yourself in.
How collaborative is the character creation process then?
Emanuel, did you have the idea of one and then knew that Sam would slot into that or did you guys talk about it and go, well, this is how we think we're going to go with it?
Because I imagine it was quite an early build with the steam kit."

"Yeah, so originally we had an idea of one and then I think the first person who worked on the character with us was Jasmine on the writing of the character.
So the character evolved in that perspective and then Anaïs, our animator, started to work on it and the character evolved once again."

"And then you jumped in and then you do the character and make it your own.
And then the character evolved like that.
So I think what I found super exciting was the way we worked on Felideco, especially on one, but we had that on every character, is how the character is progressively shaped and formed by everyone touching it."

"And that's very much how we approach it.
Yeah, I felt like it was part of the creation process rather than the very end result.
I'm used to maybe, if I'm lucky, seeing an animation during the session that I'm in and then going, oh, it's that beginning again because this is not what I've been told."

"So we had a meeting, we talked about it, we talked in person, we talked online.
Then I met Jasmine, I talked to her, then I met Anaïs as well and I saw how the character moved and I went, oh, this is a lot more animation style, cartoony heightened, you know, kind of known for more grounded performances."

"So I was like, ha, this is going to require something a little bit different.
We have reference documents, you know, people and characters through media that are influenced."

"It's just really wonderful.
You get somewhere to play and then you discuss it and you find out where the edges are for the character, what works, what doesn't, and you just get so much more out of it."

"Yeah.
It was, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a lot of TTRPG influences.
This was going to be initially a TTRPG, I think I read somewhere."

"What makes you glad that you went for the video game approach instead?
Well, I'm still trying to understand what I learned from trying to make a TTRPG."

"But now I think it's super exciting.
I think it's, I guess, it's part of any kind of creative journey, you know, you have something in mind and circumstances and crossing other people in the craft, just make something happen."

"And I think it's where we landed.
I still hope that one day we'll do a TTRPG, but I think for us, I think the day we do a TTRPG is going to be a better TTRPG because of the game we've done."

"And I think the way it forces to consider setting, consider character archetype, powers or whatever, and it's all helping to mature and evolve the initial vision of it."

"So I think it's very much how it started, even the way we were thinking about the paradox and the coercion was very different, or slightly different from the paper setting version from what we have in the game."

"I think looking into how the paradox came to be and the kind of Tron 80s vibe of the world dominated by the paradox created kind of the idea that it's a singularity that it's trying to create."

"So we have a different version of what the paradox is and actually what the corruption is now than what we had originally that was closer to very classical monsters, I guess."

"So I think it's all coming from the video game and people working on it.
Do you think, I guess on the flip side of that, because this game I would say is maybe not what people think of when they first think of TTRPG turned into video game."

"People might think of like Baldur's Gate 3, for example, or like Solasta, or even like Warhammer Road Trader, something like that, where it's very CRPG, very sort of classic, harkening back to the 90s."

"Whereas this is very, I think like very modern, very fluid in its combat, not turn-based, no sort of party system.
So what elements, I guess, of like a TTRPG can people expect to see when they're playing the game as well?
So obviously you have the skill tree that is very much TTRPG oriented."

"It's one of the elements that you also see in action RPG a lot.
So it's one of the stuff we really wanted to add that.
Then you have, in the way we develop the lore, you have the main stories, and you have a lot of flavor on what's going on in the backgrounds that don't necessarily impact the core story, but gives that impression of all the other things going on in the universe, not directly coming from the TTRPG influence."

"You have the character as archetypes.
They are very TTRPG oriented, the way we position them.
So I think it's a lot of elements like that that's illustrating the TTRPG roots."

"And I think the way we've been thinking on a lot of small systems that you see experience points, it's just part of the classical TTRPG experience.
But at the same time, the way we try to work on the action, because everything is systemic in the game, right?
So everything is coded to react based on whatever you're doing as a character and wherever you are in the game."

"And I think the idea behind that is very much coming from TTRPG roots, where you have your game systems, and you're free to do whatever you want to do as a player, and the world reacts to you."

"So I think it's kind of how we envision it, if that makes sense.
Sam, you've been involved in the Discord as well, which has allowed you to see things from a development side."

"I know as well as doing all the acting, you also host It Takes a Village, which focuses on the lesser known side of development.
Has this process, being involved in such a deep way, allowed you to gain further knowledge of all things development?
Also, I did notice there's not an episode yet with Emmanuel, and I'm thinking he might be perfect if he's up for it."

"They're all invited, I've got to get them down to London.
And it's a non-profit venture, so I've got to try and work that one out.
I'd love to do a show and tell behind the scenes, but I'm sure you're getting one together as well, or at least you should be."

"I'm trying to broaden out a little bit more into, because I was getting people I personally know into it, I don't often get to meet the more technical roles.
So I've got someone I'm thinking of, QA, to get real unsung heroes of video game development."

"I'd love to get a broader base of people, so you're definitely on the list.
It doesn't matter whether you're available or not.
No, I have even more respect."

"I've always said that making a video game is a miracle.
I don't know how anyone does it.
I was in software for a while, and that was difficult enough."

"But with that endless iteration, and the audience feedback, tested feedback, and then putting that back in, and then at some point just going, that's your game, please leave me alone."

"It's a wonderful thing.
It's such a friendly crew.
I was told there was a party last night in Lyon, so I'm here.
I brought my partner along, because I was like, you've got to meet these people."

"This is a very unusual team.
They're happy.
We were in a room together, and we had a little pop quiz, and it was really sweet."

"I just got to meet all these wonderful people again.
It's got to be successful, so I get to come back and do sequels and things.
And win again on the pop quiz, I hope."

"Any victories on the pop quiz?
Team 1 was second, unfortunately.
We lost by three points.
I didn't want to do a certain British MP and have three recounts until they got my way."

"I'll concede.
There was a match as well, France versus Morocco.
I'm not going to stand in the way of that.
I know when to fight."

"I have to fight my battles.
Use carefully.
Would you be interested, just building off from that, would you be ever interested in taking on certain development side of things yourself, like branching out into that aspect, as well as doing the voice role side?
Was there anything that caught your interest?
Maybe a narrative or something like that?
Yeah, if you could do it part-time and on your own terms."

"It was a stable industry.
As a performer, as a freelancer, I feel that my job in a way is more stable than some game developers, which is a crazy thing to do."

"Seniors have been out of work 18 months now.
It's wild.
I work a lot with the University of Uppsala in Sweden and I go and see the graduating students every year."

"Every year it's a bit, it's a bit wild encouraging them.
Oh yeah, it's a great industry.
At the moment it's like, look around you, form a company with the person next to you."

"This is going to be more viable than going out to AAAs and hoping that you'll end up staying employed.
Good luck."

"I was an IT software consultant for a while and that was a full-time job and I was doing Baldur's Gate at the same time and I didn't get that experience ever again."

"It was a lot.
I just didn't get the permission to go and do that.
In terms of a 9-5, I don't think it's really feasible with the more random pitches."

"It would be nice to have a start-up income though.
Manuel, you've spent a lot of time in the games industry, especially with AAA in the past and building from what we were talking before."

"You're now jumping to different studios with Veterans They Know and things like that. You see a lot of it in AA and a lot of it in indie spaces."

"How have you found that transition and why do you think it's becoming so popular?
I guess outside of the obvious because we're all aware of the obvious."

"What do you like about it?
What do you like about the transition?
To me, it's an exciting transition because we've been building a publisher, building a game studio all together, building our first internal game, working with a lot of different studios around that."

"It's pretty busy days and it's pretty busy weeks so it's pretty exciting.
It's really cool.
It's very refreshing."

"It's going back to working with smaller teams. It's very refreshing.
It's being your own boss so to speak.
It's something that has crazy value."

"Very good.
It comes with hardship and all the tensions and all those kind of things but the sense of freedom is I guess what is the most thrilling."

"The timing, the bigger...
You have a lot of stories of terrible moments in big companies and big AAA organizations and for sure it happened."

"I think I've been pretty lucky in my past in regard of that.
It's a different experience after...
I think a lot of people, a lot of veterans are going out of AAA regularly because they don't have a choice and they end up bouncing back and creating their own stuff but we're all staying in close relationship and in close touch."

"I'm still talking to...
A couple of weeks ago we were discussing with Jeff Kaplan on this game we were talking about Fading Echo we had a conversation with a lot of old friends that we were working together at Blizzard and I think it's something..."

"It's a big industry but it's a small industry and I think good people so to speak manage to stay in a relationship and exchange and that's super valuable."

"It's something you see a lot in the E&T space.
We're talking about knowing the E&T and that kind of thing.
We're all super small fishes and so we just stand stronger together and exchanging and be very..."

"Trying to help each other is something that is very... You have that everywhere but I think it's very unique and strong to the E&T world."

"I'll tell you what if you're not a fan of the games industry I'll tell you about Philosophy because that was really well put.
That was beautiful."

"Something as well I really liked is a phrase in the game when I was reading up on it and reading about it was the tagline like creativity isn't optional, it's survival and I was thinking about that and not just is the game itself because obviously that plays into a lot of the game mechanics but I wondered if you guys saw that also as kind of a way to look at the gaming industry with sort of like how people are going to have to like as you said before the way that people kind of maybe bounce back after losing a job at the AAA to come up with something that no one's seen before and we've seen it with a lot of recent successes as well or even just like finding the creativity when there's so many different things battering you."

"Thoughts? Feelings?
What do you think?
I mean I don't like to bring up AI but it's just in my head now The thing with the B&S who are trying to make us all use AI is because they don't they see creativity as a sort of task to be done they see it as a thing we don't want to engage in whereas in fact that's what the story of humanity is about it's that individual struggle it's everything that's ever happened to you in your life and that's your perspective and that's what makes it unique and the idea of removing that we went down a dark path once we started using the word content for art and I think that's just what it is it's something you produce and the process is lost so I think that's a really moving tagline for that actually and when we're talking about heatwaves we're going to have to get quite creative with this stuff soon, aren't we?
We're going to have to when there's no safety net when there's no legal anything to catch you I think we are That's why it's an industry that I've always been in a strong transformation so if you look at the game industry from the 60s, 70s to nowadays the game industry changed and reinvented itself numerous times I think today we might be in one of the biggest moments of transition and reinvention What's going to be the model?
No idea but I think you have opportunities I think it's always brutal transitional moments because transition is usually the essence kind of brutal I guess but there are things to do when you see a new form of games a new form of game experience who could say 10 or 15 years ago that actual play on streaming would be so big and Critical Role is doing a show like..."

"A Wembley Is that a Wembley?
I didn't know I remember in the 90s when the comedians were doing Wembley and everyone went, oh my god, they're the new rock stars Who would have seen that coming?
That's fascinating I think it's what do you reinvent sorry so creative process in our field Is it through video games changing the nature?
Is it other form of expression around that?
I think we need to stay open and see what comes out of it Like I said, we wanted to do a GTRPG and we ended up doing a video game so whoever knows, Westfields Engineer Actually not, there are a whole bunch of devs who maybe haven't worked in games before they come in from different disciplines too there's a lot of that, there's a lot of cross-cultural stretch and you know games are so saturated right now as well as the platforms being on fire How do you stay open?
I think that might be actually why it stands out because you've got people from different disciplines I agree Jasmine, that's the first time she was writing for a video game she wrote a lot for GTRPG and stuff like that Maxwell's first game that he scored Yeah TV shows and movies but never video games and I think it's also hopefully what brings something fresh and new and a bit unique Usually you need to be careful when you're trying to be unique to not be too unique You have to invent the wheel it might be a thin line You need to find your audience I guess But yeah, we'll see It's a tough world and it's a tough moment for the industry but it's usually part of what makes the world fun I always think about this quote in Overwatch don't look at the world for what it is but for what it could be and I think it's very much what should drive the way you do your jobs in a way Not fully reinventing the world just maybe making it a different shape or something I guess Go with that As you touched on before we were talking about Critical Role Oh Wembley, that was it The cast has a bit of a who's who of people who love TTRPGs who also act in video games How was it bringing everyone on board Was it as easy as a yes with everyone else as it was with our main star right here And was there anyone that you'd have loved to bring on board that maybe you didn't get the chance to just this time for a potential as we were talking about sequels before or anything else So I think so far we were incredibly lucky and it happened in a strange way I think we were discussing actors for the characters with Jasmine and we were saying who could be a right fit for one and we say Samantha would be great We approached Samantha and she thought we were trying to scam her I was in LA the first time and you wrote to me We're former Blizzard devs, would you like to be the star of an indie game with Critical Role actors in supporting roles Yes Would you want to discuss further? Not really I think I'm good You would be interested I think it just happened like that I think Jasmine did the same because we had a talented actor in mind for each character and I think Jasmine was recording with them It was a Dragon Age thing and she just basically asked them before they started to record and From there we moved on and it has been incredible to work with everyone We're a small team, we're a small project and everyone has been doing everything they can to make it happen That's just beautiful for us and I think we would have had more characters We would have had everyone we wanted Having the entire cast would have been great I think the hardest one we had to convince to do it was Jasmine She didn't want to do a voice recording She voices as well Oh yeah So good She's such a hustler She's great I think she's the first one to speak in the game You're going to play it Alex, it's good I will, I promise I've not had the chance to get to the demo yet but that's been up there Sam, this is the latest in a lot of wide-ranging roles for you I would say that I don't think there's much where you would say this is just Carlack again or this is just Victoria again or things like that How do you adapt that to each game that you come to and does it affect what you say yes to, to not wanting to replicate stuff that you've done in the past?
It makes me really happy to try different genres different characters The influence on me becoming an actor is Gary Oldman's 1990s movie career which he just transformed he was wonderful and he just got to do everything and as a performer that's what I want to do I want to play everything's ungreedy classically trained there's a body of work I get to discover all these different parts of human behaviour that might not be so acceptable in real life I'm really happy to play it and people have indulged me far too long, but thank you It's just really rewarding some real small indies we had Saras came out 007, they're the bigger ones but there's some of these really small ones as well that are completely different in the style and I just love the fact I've been able to do that I don't want to repeat myself and I certainly don't want to play a version of the same character again obviously if I can find something different, then I will I think a good example is War of the Western Deep which is in demo, versus something like Excavation of Hull's Barrow, in which you have a sort of plucky quite posh RP protagonist, how do I make them deep? One's a squirrel one is a little lady and that's a fun challenge for me to explore one of them is a lot longer than the other one as well, so it is, it's finding the separation so we can just keep audiences delighted and surprised and not another thing, because I think it's about 18 months worth of work, it'll come out in about three or four months which is always the way, thank god I made them all different We've talked a lot about TTRPGs, I think you guys are both I think it's fair to say you're both TTRPG enthusiasts, I'm one myself, you don't have to hide away or anything like that What are you guys playing at the minute, if you're playing anything at the tabletop, and what would you say your favourite TTRPG is and if I have to put in a caveat I'll say no D&D purely to mix it up a bit kind of everyone's favourite is D&D everyone starts with D&D they either play with D&D or they play literally everything else as well I got to play Call of Cthulhu in a tour last summer with Mark Mear and Johnny Chiodini as well, and just wonderful guests we got extremely silly, all around the country for a week and a half and that was just so much fun people I've known, been friendly with, but haven't actually worked with funny enough, Johnny Chiodini was my first interviewee on It Takes a Village, so it's funny how it comes around obviously I'm a big Mass Effect fan, so working with Mark Mear was a joy as well, I got to know him as well so yeah, and it's a very simple game, it's a very cruel game, in a sort of Victorian cyberpunk, I'd love to try a cyberpunk one, I've never played that, but I love for some reason corporate dystopia seems to tickle me, but you know I'm in the right place and time in history it turns out and Blade Runner and all that aesthetic, so and also to go back to your earlier question it's a great transition from a TTRPG into, I guess it's an action RPG really, isn't it? I mean there are some TTRPG elements, but that feels like a first person adventure, yeah I think they did that really well, yeah so Call of Cthulhu That's a good one well maybe I would pick probably Vampire as a masquerade Nice, yeah, fair I was a big defining moment, well I started playing TTRPG in the 80s, so the 90s scene did a real transformation You did, it was uncool, well I mean it wasn't cool but I mean the thing is that Vampire really changed the way you were envisioning TTRPG back then, I mean the rule systems the role play and all those kind of things so it's, yeah, it has a massive entrance to most of the game I think What about you? Oh me?
Little old me?
I'm playing a game called Honour and Intrigue right now it's like a very swashbuckling D8 type game where you get to be a lot more descriptive with your actions compared to something like D&D where you sort of basically D&D is sort of I hit the guy is always the best course of action, whereas Honour and Intrigue lets you go I'm gonna actually kick off the wall cut down a chandelier and then do a roll and does it work and then it's usually like no, but yes I've had a lot of fun playing with that I don't run that game which is nice because I'm usually the guy who runs the game so it's nice to be like the worst kind of player for a bit and just sort of like sit in the corner Nice I'm going on a tangent here, sorry I had I bit through my tongue a bit last week and I couldn't speak for like three days so I had a TTS on my phone that I was just the most annoying prick in the entire table just every time blasting out of the speaker and everyone would turn and shift and I could just see the annoyance growing Nice for you It's like a new permanent feature I felt like I really wanted to I felt like I was someone else there was a spirit in me there that was like a demon there was a bad person there and I don't know if I want to see him again but I can't remember where we were I think I've got time for one more I've got one more anyway and it's just a silly one if you could shift into like water like one, what would you do with that?
because it's very useful in the game, shifting into liquid me, I think I'd use it to stay cool like I know water can get hot, that's a thing that happens, but maybe not maybe if I just sit in a corner as a puddle I would be really precious and say that there's a lot of people in the world without clean water, so I'd like to have some clean water yeah I'm so sorry we're going to be nice today I think I'll just glide I think it would be really cool we've seen the game when people swim oh my god, the first time when you can turn into the waterfall it doesn't warn you, it's just a button going press this, see what happens you go what? I can do what?
and everybody has the same sound when they discover that the first time watching a stream and if you turn into water it must be like a very interesting experience to have and that's what I would do again, the philosopher in you, Emmanuel, is coming out I would glide I would be free I would see what it was like that was incredible thank you so much for your time that was a lot of fun thanks for having us"